He has revealed Himself, He has given us His Word, He has lived this life not only as an example but to lead to His sacrifice, He has been interactive and active since the get go….. Just because you don’t believe it, doesn’t mean it isn’t so.

The God you are describing doesn’t seem to be one who reveals Himself and gives us freewill but one who steps in and forces mankind to submit.

“What an insult to intelligence”? Could you find a more insulting and conversation stopping statement? Do you also find Christians to be “closed minded” because I can’t imagine a more close minded statement concerning what others believe than the one you just used.

“When a reasonable explanation of God comes along we will be listening.” How about when a reasonable desire for conversation instead of just attacking people and their beliefs comes along, maybe we can have a more productive conversation? I be listening for that as well and be all in…… Prayers!

The challange (for even a Emerging Conservative like me =) is Jesus never claimed to be “God-like”…. He claimed to be God. If He didn’t, He wouldn’t have been killed.

Also, He claimed that He is the way, the truth and the life. That no man comes to the Father but by Him….. so I think “seek your own salvation” doesn’t match up with the teachings of Christ. We are not to seek our own slavation but to accept His salvation He provides for us.

That’s my random thoughts…. Thanks for chiming in!

Now, I am finding out that we all can be “God-like” by following Jesus, the Man.

Does that make sense? I am coming around to see it this way through the path of the Buddha. He was a “guide,” the Buddha said in his dying words. Seek your own “salvation” the Buddha said before passing.

Middle Path sounds a lot like someone in the middle road, kinda like someone who could be an “Emerging Conservative.”

michael j
Conshohocken, PA USA

We will probaly have to disagree on this one of course. To me, your thoughts continue the comparrisions and don’t offer anything that refutes the main point.

Jesus was a real man. Rather or not he is the Son of God can be debated but the man Jesus is not debated. Nor are his claims that He is the Son of God. Only if He was or not is. He is not only in the Bible but in early historical documents within and outside the church. He even popped up in my High School History book (public school not private).

I think it is interesting to see what stands the test of time….

Santa does disappear after about age 8. The books from the fiction department that you refer to go in a box or sold at a yard sale and we move on with fond memories.

The belief that God drags the sun across the sky disappears after some time with a better understanding and the science books of the time are thrown away with new knowledge.

The belief that this Jesus was not nuts but truely the fulfillment of thousands of years of prophecy and the real deal continues on today even as we as a people learn more. To me, some of the points you made continue to support my thoughts.

If the only evidence is that there was a man named Jesus who claimed to be the Christ…. then Lewis’ quote is just right for you.

If you decide not to believe that there was a Jesus who claimed to be the Christ, then I have to call foul that you are ignoring history in the same way that many say Christians ignore science.

Just some thoughts…..

First, your claim that it is obvious to you that God is not fictional is extremely irrelevant, since it is absolutely no different than how obvious it is to young children that Santa is not fictional.

You say it is “WAY too simplified of a concept” for you to even take seriously, yet the only simplification you present is the fact that you feel there is evidence that Jesus claimed to be God, and you don’t know of any evidence that Nick claimed to be Santa. This seems to me nearly as ridiculous as dismissing the analogy simply because Santa wears a red suit and Jesus didn’t (as far as you know).

And regardless of how irrelevant these differences are, I also agree completely with ‘anonymous.’ This argument has nothing to do with Nick (most children are unaware of the connection anyway) or Jesus (keep in mind also that the analogy is not meant to be limited to Christianity).

Yes, it is true that the ideas of God and Jesus are older and have many books and scolarly accounts to corroborate their existence. But when I was a young child, I was exposed to a plethora of literature and accounts in support of Santa that seemed at the time to be perfectly reliable. That’s why the argument does not claim Santa is the same as God, just that God is more of a ‘grown-up’ version.

Thanks for the thoughts and I am fully aware of the impressions you left here and that several feel this way. I hope you will reread this post as I believe it adderess that very thought better than anything additional I could babble about.

Stop by again sometime and leave your name next time =)

Blessings and Prayers,

Thomas

When you were younger did you ever believe that Santa Claus was a real man who lived at the North Pole and that he brought toys to children every Christmas? Did you believe this story was true only to later learn that it was fiction and feel deceived?

This is exactly the experience I had, but replace the Story of Santa Claus with the story of God.

This is why some people say that God is the Santa Claus for adults – the disillusionment that comes with waking up and realizing that you have been treating a fictional story like fact is similar, but this realization tends to come early in life for the story of Santa Claus, and later in life for the story of God.