Emerging Conservative

Hey all, I’m back with part two of a who knows how long series of blogs on my visit with Solomon’s Porch and Emergent’s Summer Institute a few years back. This visit served as my introduction to Emergent as I described in the first blog a few days back.

For this post, I want to dive into my conversations on the topic of homosexuality. Now before I get too far, I want to say up front to my ultra conservative friends and my emergent friends that my moderate view on this topic will probably not be what you wish my belief to be. On other forums, I have taken hits from both sides not happy with my stance. I can live with that, however, I believe my position is founded in Biblical truth and love in how I carry myself in that conviction. I won’t spend a lot of time describing all of my thoughts on this topic as you can find it in the blog entitled homosexuality if you wish. For the sake of this blog, let’s just now that my belief that there is a sinful element to homosexuality made me seem like “ultra conservative boy” at the Summer Institute.

Experience of the Week

You see, the first night was a conversation on homosexuality. While must of the conversations throughout the week were in smaller groups, this one was larger as it was an evening event and members of the church were invited to attend as well. There was maybe about 40-50 people there.

Now this format would have driven my Biblical studies teacher in seminary nuts! It resembled what he would call a “group grope” session. A group group is where a group of people talk through a topic from their personal, emotional, logical standpoint but there is no one who is educated in the Scripture to facilitate the group discussion into the Biblical truth. I think there is a time and place for both formats so it didn’t bother me as much. Plus, it wasn’t just a free for all. There was a lovely young lady who served as facilitator. I forget what her profession was but it was something in the field of counseling who worked with the GLBT (Gay, Lesbian, Bi-Sexual, and Trans-gender). While she never served as a Biblical compass, she did know her stuff when it came to the complexities of spirituality and the GLBT community.

The meeting was started by our facilitator with a curious yet brilliant move. She had printed on a piece of paper the words “Is Homosexuality a Sin?” and said something to the effect of…..for tonight, let’s take this question and put it over here (while placing it with tape to the wall). For that discussion, we were not going to debate rather or not homosexuality was a sin but discuss and understand the complexities within the conversation as we “deconstruct” (the first time I heard this popular phrase but it far from the last) the topic.

While many ultra conservatives would be bothered by this move, I thought it was great! A matter of fact, I was evil and stole the technique to start that next Sunday’s message at church as I presented for the first time the concept of the Jedi Errorwhich was born from that week. This took the conversation past the same old debate and focused more on the people involved in the debate on a personal level and how to love each other more. As a Christian man with a more conservative belief on GLBT issues who also has many members of that community as friends and family, I looked forward to just such a conversation. If you are an ultra conservative, I invite you to dare to try this with a mix of people to understand the complexities. Exploring a deeper understanding of the emotional does not have to be a threat against the Truth of the Scripture.

Anywho, back to the conversation, for a great deal of time, people shared stories and testimonies from their lives and from those they love. There were frustrations, hurts, encouragement, and more as the sharing flowed. After about an hour, it seemed that deconstructing the topic was a success! Everything was fluid and without form at this point. It would appear to be about time to construct something out of all these raw materials. So, in my innocence, I asked the unthinkable. I said “I love the conversation, the stories, and the sharing. I wonder how any of you would match up your thoughts to the Truth of the Scriptures?” BOOM! You would swear I had said the F word. (Actually that may have been better received as any conversation led by Tony Jones was peppered with swearing which no one seemed to mind but me).

At that moment, no matter how you looked at it, I became “one of those people”. Many seemed bothered by me, pulled away from me, and a little more defensive in their communication towards me. In some ways, I don’t blame them. Many who hold my beliefs have been hurtful, judgmental, and down right cruel to those in the room. I get that. At the same time, I could visually see the rubber band effect that most of the room was the far extreme from me and the uncomfortably to bring the Scripture into the conversation was, to say the least, bothersome.

OK, fast forward. As you know from the last blog….guy talks to me, I study blogs, I settle into that there is a reason I am there. OK, so it’s Tuesday. It appears that the shock of me has either worn off of others too or else most who pulled away from me were from the church and no longer around. I have no idea which. I now have become a curiosity to many like they had never meant a conservative before that would sit and talk. They wanted to know more about my views from a curiosity standpoint. On my end, I realized I only had a week there and instead of trying to focus on several differences I had with Emergent, I would focus mostly on the GLBT issues and getting a better understanding of their views. This was mostly due to a desire to be a better and more loving friend to people back home who were gay or lesbian.

Wow, is this getting to be a long blog =) However, it is an important issue (though not a salvation issue) and I want to give it it’s due.

Anyways, most of my talks that week seemed to be with a group of about 7 main people and others rotating in and out. At the end of the week, I did a mental count and figured I spent about 40 hours that week discussing the complex issues in homosexuality and the Word of God concerning so. 

Nanette Sawyer

For the most part, the main person leading the conversation for the home team was Nanette Sawyer, a pastor who heads up a welcoming church in Chicago. (Side Note: I hate the term welcoming church or community. It assumes that a church or community who believes there is a sinful element to homosexuality can not be welcoming. While some are not, it’s really kind of a bigoted assumption that is implied.) Nanette is a lovely women who is bright, patient, and caring. Though she was really bothered with some of my views (as well as vice versa), she was very committed to the “conversation” and I learned a lot about her view point through her.

I guess Nanette would not be considered one of the “leading” voices of Emergent like Doug Pagitt or Tony Jones, but she has had some published pieces in some Emergent books and appeared to have a prominent role during this week.

Forty hours of convo is a lot to put into a blog so let me sum up.

As I said before, there were multiple stories and testimonies through the whole week of joys, frustrations, and hurts. I respect every heart and say nothing to take away from these stories. The complexities are enormous and no one should over simplify this. I believe God and the Scripture are big enough for these conversations and each one is too important to shove to the background.

Theology

Then there is the theological issues (or what does the Bible say about all this). Let’s highlight the main Scripture we (and most people) discuss.

Genesis 19: Sodom and Gomorrah: Two men (angels) come to town and many of the men from the sinful town try to break in and have sex with them.  Many say that homosexuality is shown as a sin here and one of the reasons the cities were destroyed was this sin.

Their View: This was not a sin because of homosexuality but because this was a break in the law against the rules of hospitality. This is what is really being addressed here.

Tom: Geesh, I guess getting gang raped is not hospitable. It seems this Scripture is partially hospitality, partially rape, and could be partially homosexuality but in a way that I think you can make a case either way. Verdict: Not the strongest Scripture to hang your hat on either way.

Leviticus 18 and 20: The Law…Very point blank that laying with a person of the same sex equals detestable.

Their view: Christ fulfilled these rules and they no longer apply. There are other things in this code including certain material for clothing and eating certain foods we no longer observe so you can’t pick and choose.

Tom: True. In the same way there are other things in these purity codes that we still follow so it doesn’t mean it’s not still true either but again, not the best Scripture to hang a hat on.

Scripture: Ruth and Naomi, David and Jonathon

Their view: These relationships are so close, there’s a strong case to be made that they could have been loving, homosexual relationships.

Tom: Wow! That’s a huge stretch in my call. HUGE! That’s like trying to make an argument for Peppermint Patty and Darcy in Peanuts were lesbians (which I heard that one too). It’s creative I guess in some ways but it’s very thin and if I was on the “their view” team, I would say that is not a Scripture to hang my hat on.

Scripture: Romans One and Two

Let me talk about this one last…..

Scripture: I Corinthians 6 and I Timothy 1

Their view: The problems in these texts is that the original verbage used is translated improperly. Paul did not intend to say homosexuality in and of itself is blanketed as a sin.  Instead of being translated as practicing homosexual could also be translated to things like heterosexuals practicing homosexuality, one who abuse themselves with mankind, and other variations.

Tom: While I do have a healthy respect for centuries of Biblical interpretation, believe that such arguments suffer due to the vast number of people who study Greek and Hebrew who don’t see this as such a strong argument, and another view I will present later….I do admit it’s not open and shut either. Again not the strongest argument to hang….well, you get the point.

OK, Romans…..Romans!

Their view: Well, there were several….

Paul speaks of “unnatural relations” of men with men and women with women. Poor Paul just didn’t get it that there are natural homosexual relationships that don’t apply to this verse.

Paul says homosexuality has a sinful element BUT follows it up with Romans 2 which says we should love and not judge so his real intent was for us not to make it an “issue”. You are sinning by addressing the sin.

He was actually addressing a ritual that was used to worship a false god so he really isn’t talking about homosexuality per say.

This next one was presented and then the conversation was cut short (maybe or maybe not intentionally) so I was never given the chance to address it more. The person said a friend of theirs was serving in the Middle East. Where he was, there were homes where they raised little boys for the express purpose of men being able to rape them for pleasure. Women were just used to make babies. WHAT IF, since that portion of the world has not changed as much as America has over the years, Paul saw this going on and was really addressing this instead of homosexuality as we know it.

Tom: WHAT? Are you kidding me? To me just the multiple different attempts to explain it away are suspect. Paul was pretty direct and bold in his writings. If he was REALLY talking about false god worship, he would say “Stop worshipping false gods and following the practices as such.” If it was the “boy house” (which to me was the wildest “theory” and was disappointed for everyone else to go “Oh” and shake their heads in curiosity, then jumped up for dinner). You have got to be kidding me. Again, Paul would say “Stop raping little boys.” Not mask it with what he did say…..

‘Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.” Romans 1: 26-27 

The song and dance just does not explain a very bold, clear statement. It also holds a balance in the whole context of the other Scripture mentioned that paint a complete and consistent picture. Quite simply you are using several different theories to explain away several different Scriptures that say the same thing, I’m sorry but you look at that with a real and open mind, that very much suggests we are trying to explain something away instead of trying to find the Truth of the Scripture and then defining our response accordingly.

Could I be wrong? Yes. Could they? Yes. Do I wish I was wrong? Yes (to be honest). However, I will not contrive personal theories to explain away what I am not always comfortable with. That’s not how my Bible works. I find Truth through the Word of God and let it shape me. Not the other way around.

That is not to tear down others who honestly search the Scripture and come up with something different than me. For the most part though, during this week that was not the overall impression I got from most.

Sidebar

Another concern I had as far as conversation style, simular to what I said before is there appears to be a habit in the Emergent talks I experienced that I have heard us conservatives blamed of doing. Shutting down a conversation after making a big point and not really wanting a response. Both sides need to be able to fully talk for it to be a full conversation. Just a thought.

Wow, are you tired of reading this yet? If not, maybe you have an illness or addicted to reading babble.

By the end of the week, for the most part, I felt generally listened to and I hope others felt heard. It is the Spirit’s role to change my beliefs if I am wrong and vice versa but it is my role to do what is front of me. Thankfully, I felt I was given that opportunity even though at times I frustrated some.  Again, I think homosexuality is a sin and purity issue but not a salvation issue. If either side is wrong, it is important to find the Truth but it does lead one to hell if they are wrong or practice. It can lead to a life less than what God intends either way which is still a very real conversation we must engage.

Since I mentioned Hell….that will be the subject of the next blog of observations. However, for now, I look at the word count and all it says is “Geesh, Dude. Shut up!” So I will. Good nite.

For Further Study

If you would like a more complete study of the Scriptures discussed above, I suggest this web-site. Each view is presented by Christian homosexual men. One believes a monogamous homosexual relationship is Biblicaly OK and one who believes to act upon his homosexual desires is a sin so has chosen a life of celibacy. It’s rather good.

Sidebar

Blogs can be lousy for this kind of thing as it invites misunderstandings. Feel free to ask clearifying questions is you feel so led.

(Special Note: To my friends who read this of the GLBT community who have been part of my path in this area over the last two years…..thank you for your friendship, conversations, and love. I am blessed with several brothers and sisters in Christ that have partnered with and loved me. I am forever in your debt rather or not we always agree on this topic.)