Here’s a retro blog of mine that got some upset with me. Homosexuality is a tough topic sometimes in the Christian community but a conversation that must be had. If you disagree with me on of these points, first take a breather, pray it through and see if it is you emotions or the Holy Spirit talking to you. That being said, I am more than happy to talk with you more no matter what your thoughts are on the topic.
The following is a post I made on a different website that seemed to be OK to post here as well. I have been part of a blogging community for the past 6 months that talks about many issues. I love this community because it is not just made up of Christians and many different views are represented. I tend to be the minority sometimes there on some traditioanl beliefs but the people are open, honest, and accepting so the talks are always good. I have learned alot from them and hoped I pass some things down the line to them too.
Well, one of the biggest topics on this board is the gay/lesbain/transgender/bisexaul topic. So much so that they created just one post for the debate and it went on for three months and 70 pages of conversation. Soemtimes posts with tears, anger, comfort, and more. There have been some who are broken and hurt by church and Christians before, some who are jerks and judgmental, some with gentle hearts on both sides of the topic who are reaching out to understand eachother more.
The time has come there that the moderator has created a post where everyone can put thier final word on the debate and move on. The following is my post there and like I said, I felt I should post it here too. So with no more further adu….
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| “Well, for those who have been around, it seems you know two things about me after the last few months……..I believe there is a sinful element to homosexuality and I’m not a bigot (not everyone here, I learned believes the second one but for the most part, I think you guys know my heart).If I’m going to put my thoughts, let me start by saying I am a paradox within myself in many areas including this (much like Brennan Manning talks about in Ragamuffin Gospel). I am a man of faith who struggles when the chips are down. I love being a pastor and owning a Christian bookstore and often wish I didn’t have to deal with people or financial struggles. In this area, I have a tremendous heart for people period and a respect for those in the GLTB community because of the additional challenges that come from the outside world including the pain and frustration. To go through what may here have and still be open at all to the Christ these people claimed to represent (let alone someone like me) says volumes about the character of these newer friends of mine.I would have to, for this post’s intentions divide me on this topic between the heart of the topic and the theological area of the topic. On the heart, I agree with much that has been written here. I believe there has been a denial of equal rights, a lack of love and grace shown, a double standard in the church, I disagree with the law that gay couples can not marry, I believe we are to share the love of Christ not in spite of who people are but because of who people are, and I do not believe there is some kind of gay agenda.
However, what I am not comfortable with on any topic is basing your theology only on heart. Because of my belief in the Bible as my holy book, I am not comfortable with the words…”I believe this way or that way because it just seems to me”……My belief is based first on the Word of God and then my heart. I do not say that people who disagree with my Biblical findings do not feel this way but there are plenty who do base their beliefs this way. For example, while visiting a church, two friends….one Christian and one Jewish……shared the story about their friendship and how they can be close because they respect their different beliefs. Great! Then the Christian girl said this “The one problem we could have is the place called Hell. I believe the Bible teaches that Hell is real but it would really bother our relationship because I would have to then think she is damned. So what I have decided to do is not to believe in Hell and now it’s not an issue.” I just don’t get that! If there is a truth then it is a matter of finding that truth and then letting it affect me. Not creating my own truth that works for me. Bear with me, I haven’t gotten to the topic yet, just laying the background story. While I could say that one being born gay equals how God made me and it makes logical sense….I can also say we are born into sin so it would make sense that we are born with our own struggles outside of God’s purpose and it still makes logical sense. So if I go to a theological view on this (which has to be part of the talk)………then I have to take my own desire for what I wish the answer to be and view it without emotion. That gets scary here because the talks in many lives have really lacked the emotion but this is part of what this post is asking for. So when I look at it from the Scriptures……while I see some of the points some on my “side of the table” make, I also see how the some of these Scriptures could be interpreted the other way. If I look at Sodom and Gomorrah (and I studied these more than I will give here but just so you get the jist). Genesis 19…..I think this is a horrible scripture to use for homosexuality. Use it for rape, some will use it to say it’s breaking the laws of hospitality (I guess rape = bad manners – true) but I do not use this verse as part of my theology on this topic. If you look at the law…..Leviticus….you can (and I have) talk for hours about what is the letter of the law that kills and what is fulfilled through Christ. Why some things are still observed and some no longer apply. Fun to debate in certain circles but not part of my main theology on this issue. If you look at the lists (I Corinthians 6:9 and I Timothy 1:10) where homosexuality is listed….many will debate what did the original texts really say and isn’t just lost in translation. While I do not believe this to be true to an extent from my studies, I also don’t think it’s the most compelling issue for me. Then there is Romans 1…..I just can’t get past Romans One. After much study and many dialogues with many, many different people who disagree with me, I can not explain it away. There are those who say that Paul was talking about the temple worship he was observing and it was the sex acts of idolatry he was talking about, not homosexuality. While I agree that was the context of the talk, it seems very clear to me that the acts talked about there where not just in the confines of idolatry. I have had others tell me that the real issue is Paul was ignorant that there was natural homosexuality (God made me this way, born homosexuality) and the unnatural (they choose it or non-committed homosexual relationships). Again, that could explain it away but does not compute for me more than a way to explain it away. It seems clear to me that “natural” was defined as man to women sex versus same sex sex. I had one tell me that there used to be places where they raise little boys for sexual pleasure where woman were just used for making babies. Again, I don’t get that. Paul was a blunt boy and I think keep your penis out of little boys is different than unnatural acts with same sex. Then there is the points of all the examples and instructions for committed relationships and all of them speak to a man and woman instead of any relationship. While in and of itself is not the strongest evidence. But all of these things together, it seems to speak something I can not deny at this point. Could I be wrong? Yes. Do I hope I am wrong? Yes. Do I think I am? Not at this point. However I do keep in mind this possibility when talking to people who are curious, struggling with, or living in homosexuality so I am not forcing me on them but guiding them to search the Scriptures for themselves. Romans 2 does not negate Romans 1 for me….it shows me how to balance my heart and my theology. Not just Romans 1 but in how all of us are to love each other on any of these and other topics. Love and grace are more important. Also, there are many other topics more concerning and harmful that this one, doesn’t mean this is not a valid topic though from all viewpoints. So big shocker. I think there is a sinful element to homosexuality. Why a sinful element instead of homosexuality is a sin? Because you guys have taught me something. While I have a theology, I don’t have it all figured out. Where does it cross the line into sin? Just not a “paint by picture” outline for me. I see nothing that says attraction is a sin. That temptation is a sin. But that same gender sex is. Can you love someone of the same sex, live together for life, and not have sex thus not sinning. Maybe. I just don’t have all the details figured out. So why am I so judgmental against homosexuals? I don’t think I am. I am only talking about my belief. It is my heart that dictates how I handle that belief. Oh the paradoxes…… I do not believe homosexuality is a salvation issue. If you are gay, you can be a Christian and not be on your way to hell. A straight couple can live together and not be married and be in sin but that does not mean they are going to hell or not a Christian. (Again, speaking from my belief). So that’s the quick of it. Long post but short compared to what the people represented here deserve. Let me stop by saying this…..not everyone who believes there is a sinful element to homosexuality is a bigot who hates and fears anymore than all gay people are following an agenda to convert my children. I understand that there are many who are butts and understand where this comes from but there are many, who have my theological base and who don’t communicate well because of their ignorance, not their hate. If you find them, be patient with them. It was about 2 months of posting before people saw my heart past what I represented from their past. Again, there are unloving judgmental jerks out there. Protect yourself……but don’t lose hope. There are still those here who believe I have an agenda and I have a list of who is gay and who is not. That I need to trust to God at this point and not let myself get down from it. Thank you if you read this whole thing. It shows me you have the same heart to understand me that I do to understand others. If anyone wants to talk about these things through PM, I am more than open but I most say I like this last word possibility on the public level. I care about you guys more than any one topic. I hope you still the same way about me. Blessings and Prayers……” |
| _________________ Blessings,Thomas |
Thomas,
Thank you for keeping your many fans updated with your new spot on the www!
It’s not news to you that you and I disagree on some of the aspects you mention in this post! From the beginning of our conversations, you have always let me know how you feel & you have done it with grace & respect, and I hope that I have offered the same to you!
I wish so very much that, back when I still felt welcomed & loved in my (Southern Baptist) church, I had known someone like you. I wish that I had had the chance to fellowship with just one person who told me that, despite my “abomination” ;-), God still loved/loves me instead of what I did hear: that the only way for me to be welcomed into His everlasting arms was by trying to be something I am not & could never be. I tried denying the truth about myself & hiding my light under a bushel for the first 3/4 of my life & all I got from it was a wish that God would just take my so-called life away & do away with the pitiful, worthless shell of a creature that I had become. I tried “living” my life the way the world & my church had told me I must to be accepted, and it led to only ruin for me. The world may have loved me, but I hated deeply the imitation human being I was forced to be.
Anyway, I don’t mean to go into my story AGAIN & I know that it’s hard for me to not get overly-emotional about this subject considering that we’re talking about a subject so near & dear to my own heart, but I just wanted to let you know that I know you’re here. I also wanted to let you know how much I have always appreciated your respect. Any time I get to communicate with you, I can feel God’s grace coming through every word you write/say, and that fact opens not only my ears to your words, but my heart…a heart that has been battered & bruised ferociously by a Religion that has no time & no space for a proud, gay man, but a heart that still beats & still holds hope & still loves Christ in spite of (SOME) Christians.
I thank you for the continuing welcome I receive from you & I thank you for being open & honest & saying that you don’t have all the answers! In A LOT OF WAYS, you are a rarity. I’ve encountered too many Christians who mistake God’s infallible word for their own fallible understanding of God’s word, but not you. You are obviously open to letting God lead you & you are still open to learning & you still hunger after God’s heart, and even an outcast like me feels welcome here because, as the beautiful song goes, “surely the presence of the Lord is in this place…”
I hope to see/hear more from you as you take the Good News into all the world & as you gently remind those of us who still need reminding that God loves US, too.
Love & Blessings to you!
Clarence
[…] a lot of time describing all of my thoughts on this topic as you can find it in the blog entitled homosexuality if you wish. For the sake of this blog, let’s just now that my belief that there is a sinful […]