The Jedi Error is a concept to me for the last couple years, ever since my visit to Emergent’s Summer Institute. While it originally was a sermon, I also turned it into a blog. You can read more about it there but the basic principle is taking one of the positive elements of Emergent, having conversations, and calling to the ultra conservatives that they could learn from this. Often, the ultra conservative church is not the best at letting people struggle, doubt, and ask questions without judgement. I believe the Word of God and the leading of the Holy Spirit (not one or the other) are strong enough to handle our struggles so we don’t need to be scared to enter into the muck together. Struggle through any situation in the light of the Word and you will be a more loving and stronger person for it.
OK, that said, I have an update on this topic that saddens me. As I continue to talk with people within the Emergent community, read writings of leading voices in the Emergent community, and study more of the latest books and events of Emergent, I must say it appears that Emergent is losing the art of the one main thing I loved about them. The conversation circle appears to be smaller and smaller to only include people that agree with them and becoming more hostile to those who do not.
Sure, I saw a small glimpse of this at the Summer Institute when the whole room was silent and seemingly disgusted when I said the words “how do you compare that to the light of the Scripture”. (You can read more about that experience here.) However, while feeling like an outsider, they did continue the conversation with me not only that night but all week without the rudeness of the ultra conservatives. Those who “conversed” with me would listen, talk, and enter into the muck of the talk with me.
Recently, I see this art of heart disappearing. It appears that if you do not agree with them, they will give a couple shots of trying to educate you and if you don’t agree then, you are close minded and I am shutting down the conversation. Obviously, there is no saving you from your unloving, bigoted, Bible based agenda. Acceptance is one of thier battle cries yet it seems conditional.
The Scripture is a weapon against the enemy, a physician to the lost and hurting, and a love letter to His children. I agree that many ultra conservatives use the Bible as a weapon against everyone. This is hurtful and needs addressed. However, I do not agree with lumping anyone into that box just because they believe the Bible is the Word of God. That is how I see many loving Christians being treated just because they disagree with an Emergent and it’s in strong contrast to what Emergent’s claim to be.
For most that are not leading voices, the conversation seems to go this way within the blogging community. They make a point that is not Bible but heart based. Someone who brings theology into throws out a counter point. The Emergent (forgive the titles, only using to make it easier to follow) gets a little irritated and restates what they first said with a twist and a snide remark somewhere within. The Conservative (not ultra conservative, that’s a whole other issue) write back again with some additional points and maybe a Bible verse or two. Then, here is comes from the Emergent, “I am done with this conversation. I am trying to talk about love and helping others and you are just going to throw out Scripture. I’m not going to keep bashing my head against a wall when you are unwilling to move. I’m done.”
Now there are times to stop a conservation.
– When both parties have fully shared their views, agree to disagree, and move on
– When one person is being rude and hurtful and not really there for a conversation. Time to shut her down.
However, that is not what I am talking about. It is being used as a tactic to make the other person look worse and often times because the Emergent does not have any foundation within the conversation so they shut it down. Other times, it’s like they are so convinced about the enemy of the ultra conservative church, that anyone who does immediatly drop the Bible and do what thier heart says feels right then they are lumped into “the enemy”. It’s a limited point of view and unfair overall.
Other tactics I have seen have been from their leading voices.
One that I am watching is from Doug Pagitt. It started on my own site when I started to blog about my past visit to his church and Emergent’s Summer Institute. Doug found my little old site and put “I look forward to hearing the account of your visit.” At first, I thought awesome! This is a real chance for some conversation. However, Doug never came back. Now, he’s a busy man with his church, family, and his little road show (a glorified book tour that I have heard good and bad about) so I don’t expect him to care about my ramblings but since then I have seen a little possible trend. As I explore blogs on Emergent and Ultra Conservatives, I have found Doug has left comments on others blogs that made me change the view of the comment on my site. It now almost seems like a “be careful, big brother is watching” tactic to make me watch what I say about Emergent. Doug, if you ever come back, correct me if I am wrong and I gladly apologize but for now, it almost seems more like a tactic to shut down the conversation.
Another case in point that I found very disappointing was from Mark Scandrette with some new tactics to try to shut someone down. You may not know Mark’s name but he is a voice within the Emergent community. I met Mark at the Emergent Summer Institute and like Doug, find him to be a likable man. He has a program in California that helps people in need that he has been able to do by being content and not wasting money on material things like others do. He loves his family, he does good deeds, and he has a new book out. He also is on tour with Doug Pagitt and Tony Jones (don’t get me started) on their book tour.
While on tour, Mark got into a discussion afterwards with a young man who, from reading his blogs, seems to have a similar outlook as I do. The young man named Josh wrote a blog about the evening and some concerns he had from Mark’s book. As he discussed them with Mark afterwards, from the retelling, it reminded me of the type of things I was told on any of my concerns when talking to different Emergent folks.
After reading the blog, I was excited to see that Mark had come on to leave a comment off this blog. Like when I got a comment from Doug, I was excited that some additional conversation was to be had. However, my heart was broken as I read Mark’s post. You can read it yourself through the above link but I saw nothing but tactics of trying to shut down the conversation and discredit Josh in the process. Smoke and mirrors tactics of calling Josh too young to question Mark, saying josh was theologically uneduacated, that Josh had broken a confidential conversation by sharing it, and the like. I was VERY disappointed to say the least. VERY disappointed. I have additional comments you can read there but you get the gist.
What has happened to the conversation? I call on Emergents everywhere to really consider this question. I am not John MacArthur telling you that you’re all going to hell. I see some positives and highlight the negatives with Emergent and I’m saying you are losing one of your best qualities. You mix the conversation with a stronger Biblical foundation and you’ve got a strong movement,
As it is, here’s my prediction. The Ultra Conservative, unloving, ultra traditional church will be around but will continue to decline into smaller pockets as Christ tends to but also bypasses them like the religious leaders of His time. Emergent, which in my call, an extreme backlash reaction to this concern will do the same as they do not have a theological foundation to stand on. They will continue to deconstruct things and not construct thing. It will decline as people loss interest because of their natural need to seek out truth but are only offered more questions.
So what’s the good news, I see more and more people on both sides desiring the best the other has to offer. More love, more conversation, more community, and more truth. In other words, they will find what Christ has been saying all along and the body of Christ will be all the better for it. The leaders of both are so worried about pushing their agendas with books, TV appearances, tours and the like that they are losing touch with the sheep they are suppose to be shepherding. The Good Shepherd will not forget the sheep though. He will call them into His pen and they will recognize His voice.
Just some passing thoughts….
Tom,
I want to thank you for this insightful post. I posted quite a bit on Josh’s blog, hoping to make headway in a conversation with Jeff Straka. I am certain that I didn’t always make the best argument, and I know I got distracted from time to time, but I was hurt that we couldn’t seem to get past rhetoric to a real discussion.
I want to lay a contention out there for discussion, and I’d love to hear your thoughts on it: Emergents do not really portray the love of Christ as much as they think because they do not attach to their benevolence the clear and plain gospel message – that Jesus loves them and died for their sins. It is not an “either, or” proposal. BOTH elements of witness must be present for one to claim that he is showing love to a downtrodden soul.
Shame on many conservative evangelicals for their lack of aid to the dregs of society, and shame on many of the Emergents for withholding the life-giving gospel from those they reach.
Hey,
Thanks for jumping in. I did notice in your talks with Jeff a difference and it did play into this blog some. You were the first to state you didn;t think the conversation was going to move forward due to two different positions neither was willing to change on. I think this is a healthy time to let both share and then move on and let the Holy Spirit continue, convict, and grow. However, I did notice a difference in the reason Jeff shut it down which came off much more like waht I was talking about. I pray all who read can prayfully consider the discussion, study it in the Truth of the Word and let the Spirit lead them to truth as such. The danger is when anyone just assumes the Spirit will agree with them instead of going to the Word and the Spirit first. I have a feeling you already know all of this so I hope I don’t come off like I’m preaching at you. Just carrying the thought forward.
So your question. are Emergents really being loving when they are not presenting the gospel message? For those who did not go to the above blog by Josh, do so. It sets up this concern and questions well.
First, let me say, if I have not here yet, recommend the book “The Heart of Evangelism”. It really shines the Biblical spotlight on evangelism. I am not a track handing, evangelism method, Way of the Master guy. I believe the Holy Spirit is the convictor and minister to souls and I am a mere tool He can use as He sees fit. I’m not one for creating forced oppurtunities on my own accord but rather follow the Spirit. I say this because I think there is merit to the critism of some forming a relationship with a hidden agenda of saving a person. It is wrong and fake. After this statement, I now seperate myself from Emergent mentality on this.
With the Emergents I have read and talked to, the concept stops there and I see little if any evangelism. Outside of presenting “We’re better than your spirituality”, producing books, and telling people to recycle and work at a food kitchen, I see nada.
I have relationships and they are submitted to the Holy Spirit for His leading instead of me creating relationships to save them. It’s subtle and I would be willing to bet most Christians feel this way though we are lumped together as agenda lovers.
If the Spirit leads me to going door to door, talking to a stranger on the street, working a soup kitchen, or the like…I will do so because the Spirit has a reason for me to do so to further God’s kingdom. Any oppurtunity the Spirit creates for me to share the gospel I will.
If I am working at a clothing closet that is helping many with immediate needs but there is no oppurtunity to share the gospel (and some will beat me up for this), I would probaly look for another oppurtunity to serve that allows me to share the gospel. Taking care of the physical needs of others is important and I follow as such. However, the Great Commission is our greatest calling in this world and if what I am doing is not meeting the spiritual needs as well as the material needs of the people, I am missing the point.
So all this babbling to say this….do I think you must share the gospel in each and every situation? No. Do I think I must share the gospel in each and every situation that the Spirit leads me to? Yes (no matter what my comfort zone). Do I think someone is a better person for not sharing the gospel with someone because it might make the other person uncomfortable? I would say “hell no” but I fear that is exactly where they are helping that person end up by not doing so.
Guys, I posted this on Josh’s site as a comment, but I will do so here as well. I think I can maybe summarize what’s going on here:
I’m enjoying just reading the conversation here. It seems that we are, in this case, looking for a balance in our evangelism. One side (call em Fundamentals or Evangelicals) don’t want loose evangelism the the other side (Emergents… I know we don’t like titles but you know what I mean) want more open ways of evangelism that aren’t boxed in which don’t scare people away and are open to answering questions.
Aside from some silly minded people, I think that both sides are responding to issues of their generations. The conservatives are fighting off liberalism and universalism while the emergents are fighting against staunch fundamentalist that are creating their own white collar culture. Aren’t the concerns on both sides legitimate?
Yes, we need Biblical evangelism that spreads the gospel the way that the Bible meant it to be spread, and yes we don’t need to set forth this non-existent magic formula that “ensures” a salvation just in order to add numbers. Both are real concerns that must be addressed. What happens in the process of addressing both of these concerns is that people can be extremist in either direction.
It’s important for us to be aware of both of these problems, and answer them by seriously staying true to the Bible and our nature of evangelism. Rather than making evangelism our own flavor (whether crunchy and old or trendy and new age) we should be legitimately concerned with the Great Commission and how the Bible says it should be carried out.
Now, anyone could write a book on what that looks like, but that is what seems to be the problem here. Am I wrong to say both sides have real concerns that they are attempting to address? Would I also be wrong to say that sometimes those problems do get addressed inappropriately?
Hey Tom,
I enjoyed reading your post; thanks for linking it on my blog.
Josh
Hey Josh, thanks for chiming in and the courage and clearity you have had with your sharing.
And hey to you Austin, I appreciate your thoughts.
I would maybe add just a couple thoughts.
I would possible use the term ultra conservative instead of just conservative or fundamentals. It sounds so petty (and is really) but when talking to people on the Emergent side, all conservatives are lumped into the extreme. It works for me to have two different levels. Not all conservatives fall into the above statement above but the extreme do. When it comes to fundies, I don’t think I’m educated enough to those who fall under that label as a whole so I just avoid it until I do.
I do use Emergents because most are comfortable with the extreme and norm on that. Emergent tends to be seen as the extreme and emerging as the catch all where many different views live.
Anywho, I agree with what you said above. the ultra conservatives were the status quo. The Emergents are the extreme backlash. There are plenty in the middle who are finding a Biblical, loving view. I think we are starting to see more action and growth in this area.
I would of course agree that both have real concerns and have at time, dealt with those concerns in inproper ways. I am glad more and more people are trying to highlights these concerns and draw both extremes closer to Christ’s heart on these matter.